Seriously Considering the 7D and/or 5D2

[DavidPartington]

The time has come where we are starting to offer combined photo & video packages and I'm seriously considering investing in a couple of Canon bodies and the appropriate glass to go with them.   I used to shoot Canon (sold my 1D mkII and 1Ds mkII a couple of years back) but all my current gear is Nikon.   It's going to grind a little to have to change back - but Nikon are not coming up with the goods (for video) in bodies that make sense to me.

So, I'm looking at both the 5D mkII (for it's stills capability @ 21MP as well as video) and the 7D for it's ability to shoot both 1080/25p and 720/50p (for when I know I'm likely to need slo-mo).

Not sure if to just use the 5D/7D for none ceremony/speeches or to try to use them throughout.  The biggest gotcha is that there is no timecode - which I use all the time to sync multiple HMCs together.

I've seen lots of awesome wedding footage taken using these cameras, even weddings covered exclusively with them, but I'm hesitating for a couple of reasons.   

I've read about over heating issues with the 7D in particular, and I'm more than a little bothered about the 12 minute time limit per clip, especially during the ceremony and speeches.   I'd either have to stick a GH1 as the front unattended camera (it can happily record 1080/720 for more than an hour continuously to a 16GB card) or keep putting my HMCs there.   

If you are shooting with the DSLRs exclusively how are you working around the camera stopping at important times - such as during the vows or rings or the sermon etc?

What is the battery life like when shooting video?

Do you have experience of overheating?

What lenses are you using?   I was thinking about the 14/24/35/50 and the 70-200 2.8L IS II.   In addition (for photos) I'd pick up the 24-104L and/or the 24-70L and the 16mm fisheye.

I've watched the http://stillmotionblog.com/2010/07/06/stillmotions-guide-to-lenses-for-weddings-and-events/ a couple of times and also looked at their web site samples.  These guys know how to charge!

Lastly, how difficult do you find it to keep the DSLR stable and in focus? Do you tripod mount?  Monopod mount?  Glidecam etc?  If there was a learning curve for this in particular, how much practice did it take?

[HankCastello]

No responses?  Must be vacation time!

I'd like to see the replies to this, also.

[BillGrant]

Here's a reply. I have a massive star crossed dramatic love affair with my 5D. I love it and equally it drives me crazy. It is a very difficult camera to get working for you, but when it does it is magic. My suggestion is to go to a resource like Dvinfo.net and start searching. Buy one, and see for yourself. That's all I can tell you. Good luck.
Bill

[ampsonic]

I'm using the GH1....so no record limit issues here. Lack of timecode is very annoying however. Also, it does "split" the files every 20 or so minutes, but it's seamless.

[DavidPartington]

Thanks.  I also have a GH1 but I'm not happy enough with it to want to buy another and/or use it for stills.  I've got the hacked firmware loaded to improve the quality to that it's at least useable, but I've had a couple of occasions when the recording has stopped for no apparent reason - even with the Panasonic Class 10 cards.   I'm not sure I trust it for unattended use at this point, so I'm going to run it along side an unattended HMC151 this weekend (I've got weddings on both Friday and Saturday) and see what happens.  At least I'll have the HMC for backups

However, I'm looking to get better (more shallow) DOF for the dreamy shots of Bride & Groom prep as well, so it makes sense to get a camera (or cameras) that can do both great video AND hold their own for great group photos.  The GH1 just won't do that for me.

I've been to DVInfo.net, both 7D and 5D boards and there are a couple of problems.  Either people are saying it's an awesome camera or they are saying it's useless because of the pixel binning / stair stepping / moire or because they overheat etc etc.   However, I've seen sooooo much awesome wedding footage taken with the 5D/7D cameras that they can't be all that bad.

No one seems to talk about battery life in video mode - and since we all shoot all day long that's a big equation for weddings.  I've got more batteries than I ever thought I would have... and I use them all!

I was hoping Vinny might also chip in.... since he shoots with these two.

[BillGrant]

David,
I think you're on to something that happens anytime a revolutionary product comes out. The aliasing problems are no problem for me( I don't notice) but if I was trying to discredit a $3k camera setup because I had purchased a $20k RED one just six months before, then it is a thing to grab onto. I find NO issues with image quality at all. In fact image quality is the only reason to get these cameras. I have 2 Canon batteries for the 5D. I'm not sure how long they last but everywhere I shoot, I am always with one charging and shooting with one, and I probably cycle them 4 or 5 times in a shooting day. They last maybe an hour of shooting or so. Hard to tell, I'm too busy marveling at the footage. The most common issues, and the issues I've had are...
1. Stability. There is NO WAY to hand hold this camera so it must be stabilized at all times.
2. Focus. You have to manually focus and it can get very tricky, especially when things are moving.
3. Audio. The audio is marginal at best and can only be used out of necessity or accident, so you have to have a second source for audio (which you should probably have anyway)
4. Buying lenses is confusing and expensive. I've decided to stick only with the L series zooms and primes because I wasted too much money on lesser lenses. You find that cheap lenses are cheap for a reason.
5. File handling. I freak out constantly while transferring and transcoding my footage. Something about tape just makes me relax.

Again, don't listen to everything on DVinfo, but it's a good resource. For instance, I have shot receptions at 5000 ISO without too much grain. That's unacceptable to other people who haven't tried it maybe. Again,
Good luck.
Bill

[DavidPartington]

Thanks Bill.  I very much appreciate your feedback.

1. Stability. There is NO WAY to hand hold this camera so it must be stabilized at all times.

That was my expectation.  Looking on the web people seem to be using combinations of Steadycam, Tripod and Monopod.   Since I never (or very rarely) hand hold my current cameras it's not big deal, but it would be nice to be able to use monopods in some situations instead of fighting the tripod all the time.

2. Focus. You have to manually focus and it can get very tricky, especially when things are moving.

We currently manually focus 99% of the time now, so I'm not too worried, but it's something we would have to get used to, as with any cameras.   I'm more concerned about lack of zebras etc.

3. Audio. The audio is marginal at best and can only be used out of necessity or accident, so you have to have a second source for audio (which you should probably have anyway)

We currently use Sennheiser wireless inputs to the video cameras or to a Zoom H4N.  I'd probably pick up another Zoom at the same time.

Synchronising is a whole new ball game without running timecode - Ouch!   Maybe PluralEyes would be worth it after all.

4. Buying lenses is confusing and expensive. I've decided to stick only with the L series zooms and primes because I wasted too much money on lesser lenses. You find that cheap lenses are cheap for a reason.

Oh yes. The lenses are where the real money is, but then they are likely to be more of a long term investment, and they are needed for photos anyway.  I'm looking at the set of L primes and the 70-200 (2..

5. File handling. I freak out constantly while transferring and transcoding my footage. Something about tape just makes me relax.

I know what you mean, but I've been tapeless for a while now anyway, so hopefully this shouldn't be too bad.

In terms of batteries, sounds like they are going to be another major investment.  We don't normally get the chance to recharge batteries because venues are a little picky about who plugs what in to the wall.

Today I heard of yet another local company setting up with 4 'Handycams' (most people buy 2!) and charging below local market rates.   I'm looking at how we can start to really differentiate ourselves from the crowd and rise above the (falling) market rates.  DSLR is one of the ways to do this.  Other suggestions would be welcome

[HankCastello]

I'm looking at how we can start to really differentiate ourselves from the crowd and rise above the (falling) market rates.  DSLR is one of the ways to do this.  Other suggestions would be welcome

Although this topic has been covered previously, it is one that should be reexamined from time to time, and that "time" has come.  However, I do think it would do better in its own topic, so you may want to post a new Topic for this.

[HankCastello]

David,

Your question regarding differentiating ourselves from the crowd, inspired me to write a new article!

http://www.weddingvideodoneright.com/wedding-video-articles/15-wedding-video-business-articles/89-getting-higher-fees.html

[kwshaw1]

I have a Canon 7D that I've tested briefly for video use but don't feel inclined to deal with the practical issues it presents, so that was mostly a bust as far as I'm concerned. (Nice still camera though.) Sony recently announced a large-sensor camcorder NEX-VG10 camcorder for $2K which might (emphasize might) be a more pragmatic tool, and there are lots of other interesting video cameras these days.

Regarding differentiation, we've been hearing that song for years but in this economy most consumers want the best value more than premium quality. Be sure you know what market you're targeting...

[DavidPartington]

So, after much thought and consideration I decided to purchase a 5D mark II.   All I can say is WOW!  The footage can be both sharp and dreamy at the same time    More to follow