Videographer and Photographer "bickering" question

[zvit]

I always find that we videographers want the "perfect" angles to shoot from during a wedding, as does the photographer. During the dancing, there is usually enough spots for both of them to move around without bothering one another but at times that angle matters the most, like at the ceremoney, rings, cake, etc... sometimes there is only one perfect spot that 2 people can't be at the same time. If a photographer tries to physically tap my shoulder or move me, I will tell him firmly that I will not except any physical touching from him. How do you guys handle photographers and how do you decide who gets to stand where, or is it just one of those things that there is no wrong or right and you just have to handle it, each event at a time? 

[DavidPartington]

I'm not going to move the camera (tripod) but I may stand to one side to allow him a shot along side my camera IF (and it's a BIG IF) I can be confident he isn't going to kick my tripod while moving.   I've had a couple of photographers do that and it always means a cut to another angle to cover it.

The other option of course is they get pissed off and just stand in front of your camera anyway.   Being cooperative makes the day so much easier.

[zvit]

I don't use a tripod. The camera is big and always on my shoulder.

[DavidPartington]

Then I wouldn't move - why would you ?

[zvit]

I don't understand the question. It's not a lecture, it's a wedding. There are entrances of bride mates, parents, the ceremony, the crowd, so many things to film. One can't just stand in one place if you want the video to be interesting and live. Maybe I didn't understand you.

[DavidPartington]

Maybe I miss understood your question too.....

I never have photographers 'touching me' because I'm rarely competing for the exact same shot, but if I'm lined up for a shot (e.g. ring going on the finger, or knife about to cut the cake) then I wouldn't move, why would I? Would you?  Maybe if we have a clear shot from a couple of other (better) angles then I'm willing to compromise, but if this is the only angle and I got there first then that's the way it's staying.

It's not a lecture, it's a wedding. There are entrances of bride mates, parents, the ceremony, the crowd, so many things to film. One can't just stand in one place if you want the video to be interesting and live.

Of course we move around during the day to catch all the action, but we never move during the ceremony (we'd get thrown out of church if we tried it!) or speeches - that's why we have multiple cameras (generally between 4 and 6) and edit between them for the best angle at that moment in time.  Shooting with a single camera and moving around just causes parts of the ceremony to be missed and/or creates shaky footage that needs to be edited out.  Other than maybe the 'news', you don't get shaky footage on TV shows or at the movies, so why should you accept it on your wedding video?

I guess if you are shoulder mounted you can't do much about the shaky footage except keep moving to make it look as if it is intended (Steadycam is better for this) or try to stabilise in post.    I've lost count of the videos I've seen on the web that were just shaky enough to annoy yet could so easily have been stabilised using After Effects or Motion.   I don't understand why people don't do it.

For church weddings we ALWAYS attend the rehearsal and Ok the camera positions (manned and unmanned) with the officiant.  We also turn up at the church at least 60-90 mins before the ceremony to setup and do audio checks.  The same goes for civil weddings at venues, turn up early, get setup and stand your ground.

Compare that to the photographers that almost NEVER attend the rehearsal and then turn up 5 mins before the ceremony complaining we got all the good places to stand.  Go figure.....

Did I misunderstand your questions?

[zvit]

Yes, you understood and your answer made sense. But we won't be on the same page since weddings are different here then there. We don't have rehearsals. Furthermore, I can't "take ground". I get to the hall about 45 minutes before everyone to take shots of the place before people come. Then I film the reception. Then I take stand at the entrance and accompany the people that enter and walk with them down the isle. Walking down the isle is the only place where it's understood that I walk backwards with a dead on shot of the people walking facing me. Photographers will walk beside me. After everyone in under the alter, That's when I will take a spot and hold my ground for most of the ceremony, like you said. I will adjust my position for the ring, usually bending down to one knee to get a shot from below as he puts the ring on her. Then I turn to film the crowd clapping.

Some wedding I attend are so unorganized, that the alter is crowded with people since it is so small and we can hardly stand in it. This is where photographers will care only about the pictures, and get in my way. Since we are from the same company, it is a problem to say who should get the better shot. You mentioned the cake, where you won't budge. But who is to say that a good video shot is more important to the couple than a good photograph? With me, it's usually who ever gets a good angle first, will stick to his ground and I don't like that. I think pictures can be taken from any angle but with video, being continuous,  we can't have people crossing our shots.

Even during the first dance, a photographer will cross my path and that makes me so mad. The first dance is only a few minutes and if a waiter or guest or photographer crosses the lens, it ruins the shot.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

[DavidPartington]

Hi zvit,

Yes, we clearly work in different environments.   We simply wouldn't be allowed in the isle in front of the bride, the ceremony would be stopped and we'd be thrown out right away.

Can't you set up a 'wide' safety camera to cut to when the photographer crosses your path and blocks your shot? 

[zvit]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150156356236825&set=a.10150156356191825.285240.635241824&l=a087ea7d2b&theater

Just look at the picture on the left. 3 photographers and one videographer It's hard to work that way. (It's not me in the picture but workers from the company I work at.

[zvit]

Can't you set up a 'wide' safety camera to cut to when the photographer crosses your path and blocks your shot? 

My boss only brings a second camera if the couple pays for one.

As you can see, in the picture above, we had 2 cameras and actually the wide shot one can't see anything.

[DavidPartington]

3 to 1 does make it hard.  I can't for the life of me think why they need 3 photographers all getting the same shot

For us it's usually the other way around, 3 cameras to 1 photographer so we generally find one angle that works.

[zvit]

I agree. The photographer on the extreme left is ours. The other 2 on the right are from a different company that do event magnets. I also can't understand why there are 2 but I thought maybe one is learning.

[kwshaw1]

If a photographer tries to physically tap my shoulder or move me, I will tell him firmly that I will not except any physical touching from him.

For me this all depends on the person: if someone's polite about asking me to work with them so they can get their shot that's fine; if they indicate that they think they're more important then forget it. But mostly I've stopped worrying about it and just make sure I get the best shot I can; the photographers usually take care of themselves.

[Waldemar]

I believe I am very fortunate in this kind of situation as I personally know most of the photographers I work with at weddings.  Consequently we all are attentive to each other's movements and try to stay out of the other's field of view.  When the "shot" just has to be the same angle the rule of thumb is whoever gets positioned first holds the spot and everyone else works over shoulder or under arm.  I've had to deal with a few "foreigner" photographers and some young "newbies" who lack good manners, but so what?  It is a live event.  Anything can happen (usually does).  I've got three cameras recording.  One is bound to have useful footage. 

In the end, despite concerns of the moment, I find the sky didn't fall.  The clips edited together well.

[mark-mvs]

In my personal experience I have found that the best way to handle the "videographer/photographer competing for the shot" situation is to not look at it as competing. Technically in terms of what you're trying to do, you're both on the same team. The first thing I do when I arrive is find the photographer(s), introduce myself, get to know them and let them know how I shoot weddings. Then they tell me how their shooting methodology as well. This helps TREMENDOUSLY because we are immediately friendly and they are more willing to work WITH me and be aware of my shooting needs.

Physically I make sure that we are always on the same side of the action (and I tell them this before hand) so that we don't get caught in each other's crossfire.

90% of the time this works for me and there is no problem. (I wish I could say 100% but then I'd be lying!)

good luck
Mark