Forget tips... but what about a thank you?

[zvit]

Some videographers might feel the need to respond to this psychologically or philosophically, but please here me out and come to my level, since I know you've all been through this, and advise what to do.

I am a humble person and don't need big rewards or bells and whistles for what I do. Yes, a tip and the end of a wedding is nice and makes me feel appreciated but I can live without it. But when I work for 10 - 12 hours, doing video at a wedding (starting with the bride's preparations), especially when I'm the only videographer (work harder and more noticed), and at the end of the wedding, no one, not even the couple, come to me to thank me....... this is something that is eating me up inside. All the way home I swear quietly inside and promise to myself that I'll do a crappy job on the editing (even thought I always do a great job because that's who I am).

In life, it's a known thing, that if you keep anger inside, one day it can explode. Each wedding that this happens (almost all of them), I get more and more upset. I am afraid that one day I will bring it all out on the couple (verbally) and that would be very bad for my company.

I don't know why it eats at me so much but it does. I know some will try to say things like, "come on! it's just a job! Don't expect people to notice you. That's life! Get over it! Stop thinking so much into it! It's like that everywhere and you can't change the world...! But those responses won't help. I know those things. I also know that it could be a culture thing... (Israeli's)  but tonight I filmed a wedding that the bride was not even Jewish. She's German and her parents and family flew in from Germany. Not one thank you. I can't help it that I feel this way.

It's like if after a wedding all the guests would just go home and not one would come over to the couple to wish them congratulations. How would they feel? That's how I feel.

I don't know if I should tell the couple that they should thank us properly or just leave it and let it eat me up inside after each wedding and hope for the best.

Do any of you guys have the same issues?

Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[Waldemar]

There is a huge amount of activity going on during a wedding and its following reception.  Enough so I often wonder how the B&G, let alone anyone else, can remember all of the little details.  When my work is done I have always made my last task a moment with the B&G to let them know I am finished and am leaving the reception.   I almost always receive recognition and thanks for my efforts.  There have been a few events where I have not been able to make that last contact and, as you have noted, I received no recognition whatsoever.

[zvit]

Thanks for your reply.

I understand you. I also make contact at the end and that's when I usually get a "forced" thank you. Occasionally, instead of thanking me, they just ask when the DVD will be ready.

Many people work hard at weddings and are not recognized, let alone getting thanks like waiters, decorators, light men, cleaners, etc... but I noticed that the DJ will ALWAYS get a thanks if not a nice tip. The reason I feel different than all those other people is because I spend so much more time with the couple. I'm with her during the preparations, with both of them during the custom filming in some park or nice location before the wedding, and during the wedding, I don't use a tripod... I'm in the crowd, practically dancing along with them, making them all dance and smile to my camera. A videographer should be the most noticeable one and definitely works much harder and more hours than the DJ.

If I would have been working for my own company I don't think it would bother me so much because making great video will mean people will enjoy the DVD more and that would mean more clients for me and good business. The problem is that I work for a company and paid X money for a wedding, no matter how hard I worked. Here's where my conscious plays a big roll. My boss demands a certain level of professionalism in our work as videographers. My company has been around for over 30 years and I have seen the work of many as I am the head editor. Without trying to brag, I know as a fact that I exceed his level of demand by much. I just have a knack to produce great video. If the B&G meet for the fist time in a small room, after they meet, hug and kiss... I will ask the bride or groom to walk out again so I can get a shot from behind him\her so in the editing I can cut as if there were multiple cameras. My boss does not demand this and this is just one example of "extra" work that will not make me any more money or give me any more thanks and I always ask myself, "Why am I doing this"? Of course it's not nice to think this way but it's business and one should not be expected to work harder than he gets paid for.

I do many other things during filming that are not seen in the work of other videographers here, that demand more work and maybe that's why I get pissed when I'm not even thanked. Yes, I understand that the family has no idea that I am doing more than asked of me, so I either have to change my perspective on this issue or decide that I just have to stop working so hard and just film them on a lower level just so it "passes" with my boss.

Thanks again for your reply.

[mark-mvs]

ok, you've packed a lot of stuff in your two posts (which is great) so I'll try to reply in a way that doesn't confuse some of the different issues you brought up.

First it's very clear that you CARE about the work and want to do a good job. That's great. Just understand that this is part of why it bothers you if you don't get the proper recognition. I'm saddened to say that I have come across many wedding professionals who don't care about the work, or the B&G so they have no personal stake in the matter at all. Which is why it doesn't bother them if they are not thanked/recognized by the B&G.

Second (and forgive me if I'm stating the obvious) I think it's REALLY important to establish a special relationship (even though it's temporary) with the B&G. Go out of your way (without being phony) to establish a bond with them, do extra things to make them comfortable and create a relationship that feels more like a friendship than a business relationship. If you can do this, they will be more relaxed around you, which means you'll get great footage AND, they will be sure to thank you at the end of the day because they had FUN working with YOU! When a B&G thanks a videographer at the end of the day, they're not saying thank you regarding your great work because they haven't seen it yet. They are basically (whether they are conscious of it or not) saying "hey it was great to have you around all day, you added to the fun." I know this may sound strange but I have found that if I add to their enjoyment of their day, through interaction, smoothing tensions and being of assistance in other ways, they are very appreciate at the end of the day and go out of their way to express this to me.

Third you mentioned perspective. Now, I'm just telling you what works for me. This is my perspective: I feel that weddings are an extremely important moment in someone's life and I feel quite honored to be allowed to be present with them on their special day, I also feel honored that they would trust me to help them document this day. I never forget this and this allows me to go the extra 9 yards  for the B&G and to be nearly as excited about they're wedding as they are.

I hope this helps. If any of it has offended you, I apologize and if you think it's "crazy talk" that's fine too. It's just an honest response from one Wedding Videographer to another.

Good luck
Mark

[zvit]

When a B&G thanks a videographer at the end of the day, they're not saying thank you regarding your great work because they haven't seen it yet. They are basically (whether they are conscious of it or not) saying "hey it was great to have you around all day, you added to the fun."

I agree with most of what you wrote but the great work I meant is not the final video but the fact that for 10 - 12 hours I am standing in their faces with a huge camera on my shoulder http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=285885&id=635241824#!/photo.php?fbid=10150158704211825&set=a.10150158704161825.285885.635241824&theater and people often even come up to me and say "wow, how do you carry that all the time!"... So just that alone should be appreciated in my opinion. Don't you thank a person that holds open a door for you? Or a taxi driver when he lets you off? Why should we been seen as "just doing his job" like some janitor? (no offense to janitors).

If any of it has offended you, I apologize and if you think it's "crazy talk" that's fine too. It's just an honest response from one Wedding Videographer to another.

Of course not! Thank you for the reply.

[DavidPartington]

Everyone, tall or short, fat or thin, powerful or downtrodden likes to be thanked, to feel appreciated etc. 

Sometimes we get thanked, sometimes we get blanked.   Some people are gracious, some people are rude.   That's how life is.   We don't always say goodbye to the couple as we leave.  If they are are in the middle of a large group on the dance floor and look set to be there for a while, we slip away quietly and leave them to enjoy their night with the people they've invited, rather than paid to be with them. 

While I agree it's very nice to be thanked by the couple, if you have been "in their face all day" then maybe some are relieved you are leaving, without that being anything personal against you, maybe they're relieved they can let their hair down and no one is filming any more    We sell our services on the basis of being discreet and 'not' being in their face all day

For just about everything else you can think of, people are getting thanked after delivering the entire service they paid for, but for Video and Photography all they can thank you for is turning up and being there, which after all is what you are being paid to do.  The video could be terrible for all they know, after all they won't see it for some time.  To me, thanks means more after I delivery the DVD than thanks on the day, so I'm happy to slip away unnoticed when appropriate.

I do get a little ..... err...... frustrated is probably the word, when I see the car driver getting a £50 tip for what amounts to 20 mins work and an hour waiting around (all of which he was pre-paid for anyway!), and the we don't even get a thank you.  It's happened on more than on occasion.

I also get frustrated when you never hear from the couple after sending them the DVD.  It leaves me thinking that maybe they are disappointed with it, only to find they recommend us to friends getting married and that they really enjoyed it after all.  This happened only two weeks ago.  We did a wedding that was a second time recommendation (i.e. 3rd wedding) from a wedding we did last year.  The first couple came to the last wedding and we said Hi and then they told me how awesome they thought the video was etc, yet hadn't actually told me that by phone, e-mail or letter.  It really would have been nice to know that 8 months ago 

Everyone is different and I'm going to accept that while some people express thanks, even admiration, others are either too tied up with their big day, too shy to say anything or perhaps it never occurs to them because they weren't brought up that way.

I'm certainly not going to let it bother me too much either way.   

Let me ask you this:   If your boss said I want you to video this wedding today.  You will be paid.  The couple will absolutely love your work and recommend you to all their friends, but they won't be interrupting their party to personally thank you as you leave, would you still be just as enthusiastic with that job?   If so, how much is the thank-you really needed after all?

[HankCastello]

Perhaps the couple merely EXPECT that you are a professional and will do a great job.  I think it's unrealistic to expect clients to express gratitude at the end of the evening or even upon viewing their video.  After all, we charge for what we do and it SHOULD be very good, thus it is expected that we will work our butts off.

We often got thanked, but maybe only half the time, and probably only as a courtesy.

If you ask your brother in law to shoot your wedding, you should thank him (and not expect much), but if you hire a professional, there is no need for thanks even though the expectations are much greater.

[zvit]

Let me ask you this:   If your boss said I want you to video this wedding today.  You will be paid.  The couple will absolutely love your work and recommend you to all their friends, but they won't be interrupting their party to personally thank you as you leave, would you still be just as enthusiastic with that job?   If so, how much is the thank-you really needed after all?

First, thank you for your detailed reply. About the last quote, I'll clear something up that I mentioned before but maybe it got misinterpreted.
In a case where I'm told that I won't get thanked or appreciated like in your example... then no, I wouldn't be as enthusiastic and would film calmly like many other videographers do. This is because it is not my company and there is no reason for me to work harder for no extra money or appreciation. The DVD would still come out nice but I personally like enthusiastic filming.

Furthermore, still on your example... we film the couple for about 45 minutes in some park or nice location before the wedding. We usually finish this by 5:30 which gives us an hour before I need to be at the hall to film the last hall preparations. If I would KNOW in advance that I'd be appreciated, I wouldn't mind filming the stroll in the park for even 1.5 hours, even though I can get plenty of footage in 45 minutes. Some might not agree with me, but that's just the way I feel.

[DavidPartington]

In a case where I'm told that I won't get thanked or appreciated like in your example... then no, I wouldn't be as enthusiastic

Interesting.  It does seem like you really want the face to face thanks, even if it's not always sincere ?

[HankCastello]

You need to find your job satisfaction within yourself, not from clients.

[zvit]

There's a limit to how much one can do extra work that he doesn't have to do. I film a wedding almost every night and edit during the day. I won't burn myself out for the ones that don't appreciate me .

[HankCastello]

The problem is in your business model.  You shouldn't be doing work you're not getting paid for, regardless of appreciation or lack thereof, and if you're being paid well enough, you don't care about the "Thanks" anyway because you receive the "thank-you" in cash.

[zvit]

Maybe you didn't understand me. I don't care about the money. Just the appreciation.

I don't have a business. I am employed. I only get $135 for filming a wedding which starts at 2:30P.M and usually ends at 2:00 - 2:30 AM. I get to bed at 3:30 A.M. I would like to be appreciated for the time I put into my work. What's not to understand?

At 1:30 A.M I can just walk around calmly, filming the last 20 people that are still dancing... or I can climb up ladders, get behind the D.J and lift the camera over my head and work my a** off to get better footage. Why should I do all that if I won't even get a thank you? My boss would be o.k. with just slowly walking around the people and doing some slight pans.

[HankCastello]

Sounds like you have a hobby.  This site is for wedding video professionals, so it's hard for us to comprehend your position.  Good luck to you.

[zvit]

Sounds like you have your own business or were born with a golden spoon in your mouth and don't understand what it's like to work 18 hours a day for pennies. I'm 38 years old with 5 kids with an 18 year old on her way to collage and I excel in everything I do. If I work harder than I need to at night, I will be more exhausted during the day which will effect the editing so I must pick a balance.

You talk to me as if I said that I am choosing between great work or crappy work, depending on my feeling. Even my standard work, I do the best I can. People think I use a steadycam where I don't since I reached a high level of professionalism and I am great at what I do and love my job and am very offended that you call it a hobby.

Others here mentioned how lack of appreciation bother's them too and that was the reason of this discussion, to hear out other people and how they deal with it. I don't think that their jobs are hobbies.

Furthermore, when you are employed, you must be careful that people don't take advantage of you. My boss knows that I am worth gold to his company and ALWAYS tries to get more out of me than I get paid for. Fortunately, I am an assertive person and know my limits.

What about editing? One takes X money on a wedding. We all know that you can do a wedding in a day but if you want to do something spectacular, you can work on it for a week. So if one does it in a day is it a hobby?? (I'm not talking about the "same-day-edit" deal)

I know videographers that will stop filming at 2:30 A.M. and I support them. They don't get paid per hour and just because the D.J keeps the music going for 3 people until 4:00 A.M. doesn't mean the videographer has to work. There are limits even for professionals.

No production studio will always send 20 camera men to a wedding with every piece of gear in the market. No. There are packages that the couple can choose from. If he chooses a cheaper package, that doesn't make wedding production a "hobby" for that studio. You get what you pay for. I get paid X money per wedding and I'm told what needs to be done. If I choose to do more, it's because I connected with the couple and made a conscious decision to give more than what they are paying for. If I don't get thanked for that, I feel I gave them a freebie.

This is not going in the direction I hoped for. Please close this thread.