4evergroup Orlando Event & Exchange with WVDR

[Dynesh]

I'm going to the 4ever group thingy in  January. Looking forward to it, and hoping it justifies the money I'm spending to go.

[symetri]

What is the 4ever thing?  I've been looking for some good shows to attend that doesn't cost 100's of dollars.

[osbornes5]

No conventions for me anytime soon. Other issues at hand that must be cleared. Not that I don't want to. I would love to do some of this sometime but out here in fly over country it costs a fortune to travel to the coasts where the pretty folks live.

Hey, someone in the convention business: How 'bout a Tulsa or Oklahoma City convention? Better yet how bout a Bushyhead, Oklahoma convention? Course we would have to build a building to have it in but hey...

[Terry]

I will be going to the 4EverGroup's Expo in Orlando next month because I will be competing against Glen Elliott in the Iron Videographer contest.

I won the first round against Chris Watson in Dallas and then won the next round against Philip Hinkle in Atlanta a couple of months ago.

Glen is a super talented editor so I'm up against one of the best. And unfortunately I'm a very slow editor and in the last couple of years have been suffering from anxiety attacks when in front of a crowd, so my chances look slim for winning this one. I'm still surprised I won the first 2 rounds.

So whoever from this forum is going to Orlando also, please come say hi to me and if you have some kind of aromatherapy to calm nerves, bring that with you also.   :?

[HankCastello]

Terry,

Best of luck to you!

Would love to run a story about your experience so far and follow up after the competition with another.  If interested, please send a written account and we'll get it posted as an article.  Any photos would be nice.

Sounds like an uncomfortable situation - editing with people watching and under all that pressure.  I don't even like it when my cat curls up on my desk to watch me edit!   :lol:

[osbornes5]

Wow Terry, It is even a bigger pleasure to have you in our midst. Congratulations man! I have seen some of Mr. Elliott's work and it is indeed awesome. If you take him out, that will be most impressive! Good Luck Dude!

[HankCastello]

For those wanting more information -

 Jan 21-24 Video 08 Conference & Tradeshow @ Orlando, FL

info video & registration link:
http://4evergroup.org/convention08/home.shtml  

 Registration Prices
Member/Student Price: $249 (second person $224)
(This registration requires being a member of the
4EVER Group Videographers Network or Student at a qualified school)
General Admission: $398 (second person $249)
(This registration is for individuals who are NOT members of the
Videographers Network. It does include a 1-year Videographers Network membership)
***
Don't forget the Artistic Achievement Awards Banquet ($99/per person)
or The SUPER SESSION "Day With" Workshops ($199-$249)
Trade Show Only Admission (Tuesday) $25 (members) or $50 (general admission)

-----------------------------
I wouldn't have paid $650 (price for a couple) to see Mayweather and Hatton "duke it out", doubtful I'll pay that to see Terry and Glen even though we'll be in the area about that time.  Maybe they'll send me a "press pass" !   :lol:

By the way, I went to a CES show back in the late eighties, when I still owned some computer stores and it was super!   Looking back on that experience, perhaps the Orlando convention prices aren't all that bad.

[HankCastello]

I'd noticed what seems to be a lack of activity on forums of many other  organizations and other problems that can detract from their effectiveness like using "news" sections only for plugging products and not having good contact info.

Case in point - 4evergroup.org lists their advisory board contact info at:
http://www.4evergroup.org/advisory.shtml

Using the email link provided on that page, I notified them of this thread, thinking they might like to add something to further plug their event.  (Or even actually give us a press pass). So far (it's only been an hour or so) I've gotten two email returns -

******************
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at outbound-mail-32.bluehost.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<bonnie@dvisionvideo.com>:

******************
Sorry, unable to deliver your message to robert@robertallenvideo.com for the following reason:

 552 Quota violation for robert@robertallenvideo.com

******************
It probably isn't good for these people's businesses that their email is bouncing but it isn't exactly great for the organization to have its emails bounce either.  I wonder, what if someone was thinking of attending the conference, but had a question and used this page to communicate with 4evergroup.org.  When he got the email bounces, would he be somewhat less inclined to attend?

*********************************
[edited to add yet a third bounced email]
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at outbound-mail-10.bluehost.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<davidchandlergick@gmail.com>:
Connected to 72.14.253.27 but connection died. (#4.4.2)
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

--- Enclosed are the original headers of the message.
**********************************

[HankCastello]

A few of us were talking about conventions and whether they were worth the seemingly rather high cost, such as the $250 ticket price for this one.  That gave me the idea for an article - Two of us would go, me with a camera, digital recorder, notebook and pen to do the coverage and either Marty or Jean as the "attendee".

I would follow them around for the three days and collect their opinions from time to time.  At the end, we would tally travel, hotel and meal expenses along with those of the convention, interview the attendee and see what their opinions and overall comments were.  We would also do quick interviews of a dozen or so other attendees.

But our plans were shotdown when we received this response from Steve Wernick of 4evergroup.org -

We would have no issue with providing credentials to any bona fide media organization. Hosting or moderating an Internet Forum, unfortunately, does not meet that standard.

Although our intention was to do an article (for our Articles section - http://www.WeddingVideoDoneRight.com/articles.php ) with photos, etc., I could sense an apparent lack of appreciation for the power of forums, blogs, etc.  This is also evident on their own forums which are sadly, lifeless.

What is the difference between the print media and web media?  Well, nowadays I get my news from the web.  We live too far out in the country to get a newspaper, but web news is faster, more up to date and easier to drill down to what is of interest to me so I think that like many others, I would continue to get my news from the web regardless of where I lived.

Why show disdain for a medium that is faster, more up to date and doesn't kill trees?

What is the difference between forums/blogs and static web media?  Forums are interactive and dynamic.  If someone says something that isn't true or is off base, it isn't allowed to stand - people will post opposing ideas almost immediately.

So why show disdain for a medium that allows others to interact and share their ideas and opinions?

[HankCastello]

Steve Wernick telephoned me a little while ago, and if the best wedding videographers are true "artists" and if artists have big, fragile egos, then I'll bet Steve is one heck of a wedding videographer!

Steve had asked about trading banner ads and I'd written to ask where I could find their organization philosophy posted because we didn't want to give the appearance of endorsing an organization that had sharply divergent beliefs.  I specifically said we couldn't do it if they advanced ideas that we felt would be fleecing a bride or teaching that it is OK to cover a wedding with a single mic, etc.  

Steve took great umbrage at this, but went on to ask how we would cover their event if given a press pass.  I explained, as above, and said that although I would hope the outcome would be positive, we would report it like it was - good, bad and ugly and include input from at least a dozen other attendees.  He thought about this for a few seconds, then vented some anger and nixed the whole thing.

He went on to say that he felt we were competing with his organization and that they may start some sort of program similar to our certification.  I told him I thought that would be fine, but was somewhat overdue considering they've been around for a few years now.

Things went downhill from there (and we were already at a pretty low altitude!) with Steve slinging angry insults.  I finally cut in and said that I hoped the 4evergroup.org would soon have a more enlightened leadership and when we finally learn their stand on issues, assuming they are pro-brides and pro-professionalism, we would still be happy to work with them.  I wished him all the best and hung up the phone.

For the record, Steve said he has no disdain for web media.

[HankCastello]

Here is the entire email message that started the exchange between Wernick and myself -

We just plugged your Orlando event -

http://www.weddingvideodoneright.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=422

(see recent post under this topic)

We average 100 visits daily - all from wedding videographers.  You may want to keep us informed of future happenings to expand your news beyond your current membership.  If you care to send me a banner ad with a 160px width, I'll be happy to post it for you free of charge.

Now that we're on the subject of "free of charge" - if you would like to send us (myself and my wife) a "press pass" to this event, we'll be happy to cover it with a full article which would give you more exposure and we could refer to this article again as your 09 date approaches.  


 - Hank Castello
  (918) 452-2783 (ofc)
  (888) 658-4348 (free)
  (918) 720-8821 (cell)
  WeddingVideoDoneRight.com

You gotta wonder how their members might feel about this - missing an opportunity to have a banner ad for their event AND a full article to cover the event.  Such promotional coverage on a site where we get 100 wedding videographer visits each day, is worth moola - yet we were offering it all for free.  If they were afraid that their event wouldn't be good enough to garner a decent review in the article they could have at least gone for the free banner ad.  Instead, one person's ego blew the whole deal.

Wernick's reply -

Hi Hank,

Thanks for your support, and for getting in touch with us. We'd be pleased to trade banner ads with you, if you can provide us with a banner that promotes your site.

We would have no issue with providing credentials to any bona fide media organization. Hosting or moderating an Internet Forum, unfortunately, does not meet that standard.

We will have a talented group of writers among the attendees. If you're interested, we can easily provide you with articles, photos, and videos from VIDEO 08.

I also noticed that you mentioned that you encountered some email glitches with certain members of the Advisory Board. We apologize for that difficulty. Letting us know directly, rather than simply posting about the issue, would have enabled us to resolve those challenges quickly.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Regards,
Steve Wernick
Director of Development  

My reply to that -

Steve,

Nice to hear from you.  Helping you plug your event is one thing, a banner ad for your organization is quite another.  Could you direct me to a web page or other content that spells out your organization's philosophy, etc.?   While it is quite likely that we'd love to help promote your organiztion, having an ad for your organization in general would have the appearance of an endorsement, since we are very careful about the ads we display.  Before giving that appearance, we would need to learn more about 4evergroup.org and get approval from our board.

Unfortunately, that is one of the things that covering your event would have helped with.  As for drawing a distinction between the print media and the Web media, I think such a line is rather irrelevant today.  Our site arguably, reaches more wedding videographers than ANY print media.  From the posts on our site, it is apparent that many of these wedding videographers were not aware of your event and not very aware of your organization.   Also, we do a bit more than "hosting an internet forum" as you put it.  I suggest you take some time to review our site.  And you won't have to look hard for our philosophy - we wear it on our "sleeve".

I would think that your group's leadership should feel a responsibility to better publicize your organization and its events and would hope it is enlightened enough to be able to change policies that have become outdated.  Of course, if the organization's philosophy appears to (as some do) support the notion that it is OK to use deceitful tactics to fleece a bride, or tells videographers they should cover weddings with a single microphone, then I can understand why you would not want us to cover your event.

As for contacting you about the email glitches, contact is exactly what I was attempting to make.  However, by this time, it was appearing like email wasn't going to be sufficient.  I had full confidence that word of this post would get back to someone there.

In short, we would love to be able to help promote your organization if its philosophy and actions are not too divergent from our own.  


 - Hank Castello
  (918) 452-2783 (ofc)
  (888) 658-4348 (free)
  (918) 720-8821 (cell)
  WeddingVideoDoneRight.com

..and this lead to the aforementioned phone call that Wernick made to us, this morning.

[HankCastello]

One more thing -

In regard to fleecing brides and using only one microphone, I was told that 4evergroup.org does not delve into such details of business practices nor technical issues and does not try to dictate to its members what should be artistic decisions.

Well, I don't know just how "artistic" it is to decide to fleece brides, but I can see where some cinematic (short form) stylistic videographers may get by with a single mic - but definitely not documentary style and since we see so many doc-style videos done with a single lav mic, or worse - a single on-camera mic, I don't see why we couldn't have come to some sort of understanding.  

I can only guess that the prevailing problems we're seeing that are hurting our industry are, if not exactly being promoted by the two larger organizations, are definitely not being fought against, either.

You just gotta wonder what a certification with 4evergroup.org would be worth to a bride when they won't set minimum guidelines for fair business practices or for professionalism.

[vismaster]

You just gotta wonder what a certification with 4evergroup.org would be worth to a bride when they won't set minimum guidelines for fair business practices or for professionalism.

Good point!

It would really be meaningless.  Your certification process is a pain in the butt - especially having to give three recent references but at least it is meaningful and affordable.  My app will be in your mailbox by next week.

[On a Roll]

Wow, it's unfortunate that a site with as much going for them as they have would have as large a problem as they do.

For the record, I think 4Ever has a ton of great resources, but they could sure stand to show the world that they stand on the brides' side. I think they encourage professionalism for the most part, but then, without seeing their seminars, I can't say that for sure.

The last wedding video seminar I went to left me sadly disappointed. The person "teaching" wedding videography was totally unqualified to teach the class, and I actually spent about an hour after the class "reteaching" anyone who stuck around.

[Dynesh]

Well, I still look forward to going in January.  I hate that it costs me 400$, but the classes they have lined up really look good, and they have some great teachers down there, looks like.  Mark and Trisha Von Lanken are doing a special thing the day before, but sadly I could not attend that, because it costs extra, but Mark is doing a seminar during it that I will make sure I am at.  If you haven't seen their stuff, its really nice looking.  I bought some training videos from them, and love how they shoot their weddings.

Anyways, if anybody else is there, look me up, I'll be the lonely looking guy who's not good at striking up a conversation with strangers.