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Author Topic: Dark Wedding Video  (Read 2959 times)
okc82bride
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« on: April 17, 2007, 03:43:55 PM »

My sister got married two years ago and her wedding video of the reception is so dark that in places, only the eyes and teeth show.

What can I do to ensure my wedding video will turn out right?
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 03:55:35 PM »

If this site were a year or two old already, I could say just search for one of our certified videographers, but we are brand new and there are only a few so far.

That means you'll have to do some work.  There are only two ways to get enough light for wedding video..  One way is to have a video camera that works well in low light.  Most video cameras need lots of light and are intended to be used outdoors or with studio lights.

The Sony models VX2100 and PD170 are made for low-light wedding and video work.  If your videographers uses these, then he is aware of low-lighting issues and has taken them into account when he purchased his video gear.

But even these cameras need a certain amount of lighting and sometimes the venue will turn the lights down past the point where they can get good color, etc.  Normally, if you can easily read a menu in the lighting, then the Sony's can do their magic.  But if its too dark for reading, then extra lighting must be used.

On-camera lights may bother some guests and take away from the ambience, but when it gets too dark for video cameras, it's either bad video or extra lighting.  

No matter what kind of cameras your videographer uses, he should always bring on-camera lights, just in case.
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osbornes5
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 11:12:08 AM »

The poster has given you excellent input. I couldn't agree more with any part of it. These Sony's are both very expensive cams. However, there are cameras out there that cost more that cannot touch the performance of these particular Sony's when the lights go down and the ceremony starts. In my humble opinion they are THE premiere wedding cameras available today. There are a couple of other 1 lux rated cams, such as the Panasonic DVC7. However, that 1 lux rating is a bit of a stretch, wait, it is a big stretch, when you do a side by side comparison with one of these Sony's. I have done that comparison personally at my church...not even close.

Equally important is having a videographer that knows how to MANUALLY adjust his or her camera, especially for exposure (bright and dark). That is not a given either. There is not a camera made that can be relied on to give you accurate automatic adjustments all of the time on its own. There are just too many variables that a dumb video camera can't figure out especially in a highly variable and changing situation that is encountered particularly before and after the wedding. Whoever you choose to shoot your wedding, ask them if they adjust their camera manually or if they let the cam do the work. If they don't adjust manually 90% of the time, run from them like they had the plague!!! It is entirely possible that the videographer just totally blew it on his settings. That is one reason why a good videographer will NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER shoot a wedding with only one cam. Two is a minimum and three is even better. Four cams puts you in cinematic heaven. Multiple cams cives many other benefits that I will not go into here as well. If you have at least two cams, the odds of you blowing it on both of them are much smaller.

A good editor can electronically brighten your video in the editing phase of the process (a process that is just as important as the video itself and takes many times longer than shooting the wedding itself). However you can only go so far down that road before the video begins to get very grainy. If he tries to go too far you will hate the video and the editor.

The truth is it ALL starts with a good camera AND a videographer who knows how to use it.

If you are a bride to be, please check back with us and let us know how your search went and if you are satisfied with your choice.
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kwshaw1
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 12:07:24 PM »

Some interesting comments here, but the best advice is to ask to see an example of footage shot in dim lighting and decide for yourself whether it looks good. Some cameras are better than others in poor lighting but lux ratings don't tell the whole story, and knowing how to manipulate dim footage during editing is also part of the equation. Shooting manually means nothing if you're not good at it, and in many situations a camera's auto exposure will do the right thing faster and better than a human operator could - the trick is knowing when to go off auto because that's not delivering the desired result.

I mostly agree with the comments about multiple cameras at weddings, but the client also has to be willing to pay for that service. Two cameras should be considered a minimum for the ceremony but may not be necessary at the reception, where multiple cameras can also be more obtrusive. I usually run a minimum of two cameras myself, but it's not necessary for every moment of every event.
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HankCastello
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 01:02:20 PM »

Quote
Some interesting comments here, but the best advice is to ask to see an example of footage shot in dim lighting and decide for yourself whether it looks good. Some cameras are better than others in poor lighting but lux ratings don't tell the whole story, and knowing how to manipulate dim footage during editing is also part of the equation.


Although I respect my colleague's opinions, I must disagree..

Since we're responding to a bride here, and since "dim lighting" is such a relative term, I don't think we can expect her to ask for samples of dim video and make a decision.  Besides, what videographer would actualy show her grainy, video lacking proper saturation?

Some cameras definitely are better low-light tools than others and, in my opinion (and probably the opinion of most), the previous poster has already mentioned the two current leading "wedding video cameras" for standard video.  (I'd add the Sony FX1 as the leading hi-def camera due to its low-light abilities).

As for, "manipulate dim footage during editing" - this has got to be a last resort option and should never be part of the original equation.  There is no time you're going to end up with better images having to correct things in post than if you'd exposed properly to begin with, so this should be a "Plan-B" option, only.

Quote
Shooting manually means nothing if you're not good at it, and in many situations a camera's auto exposure will do the right thing faster and better than a human operator could - the trick is knowing when to go off auto because that's not delivering the desired result.


We're talking about professional wedding videography here, so "..if you're not good at it.." should not even be a consideration.   There is currently no prosumer video camera with auto-exposure that knows when to ignore bright or dark backgrounds, etc.  Not a single model is intelligent enough to know what is the subject and what should be ignored.   This means that in all cases where non-subject matter makes up a sizable portion of the image and where such matter is a contrasting luminence (darker or lighter than the subject) - the exposure will be wrong - GUARANTEED.

Also, only the camera operator can know if he wants to expose for the white gown, or for the flesh tones.  It depends on the shot and what he is wanting to emphasize.  No auto-exposure mechanism currently available can know these things.

Simply put, for the best results, the greater the camera operator's skill and experience, the less automatic control he will allow the camera to take.  That allows perhaps a little wiggle-room for occasional use of auto-controls, but not much.  

I am back in agreement about the multiple cameras.  Ceremonies are all different, but most are best covered with either three or four cameras.  Two should be considered a bare minimum.

Multiple cameras are great at receptions too, but here mobility is even more important and like the poster says, you don't want either cameras, tripods or camera operators to be obtrusive.  I've been guilty of leaving a static cam or empty tripod where they show up in video shots and photos, and I have to make an effort to remind myself to not do these things.
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kwshaw1
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 01:39:54 PM »

Quote from: "hank-WVDR"
Since we're responding to a bride here, and since "dim lighting" is such a relative term, I don't think we can expect her to ask for samples of dim video and make a decision.  Besides, what videographer would actualy show her grainy, video lacking proper saturation?


I don't see how there's any better advice you can give a bride than to look at samples of previous work, and if someone does show you dark, grainy video then it's an easy choice what to do. Brides aren't interested in technical details like lux ratings which aren't a precise figure anyway, they just want to see good results. Any decent video camera can be used effectively if the operator knows its limits and how to adjust for them (including when to turn on a light), and that's what potential clients should look for.
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Majestic Video Creations
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 10:06:44 PM »

The comments about finding an operator who manually adjusts the camera are right on. That the operator KNOWS how to do it seems to be implied. Personally I use auto for getting the cam close and then adjust on my own. Time on auto is about three seconds. I have used auto when a wedding party walks down a long sidewalk outdoors through alternating areas of sun and shade. But those type situations are rare.

If a bride does not question about equipment and low light capabilities of their equipment and whether the videographer might have to use a light during the ceremony for a good crisp image, she is setting herself up for a huge disappointment or ceremony lighting that she views as unacceptable. I know of ceremonies that were shot by a "professional" videographer who used small palmcorders as his camera of choice. One might say that this should show up in a demo but we all know that a clever editor can take footage from three or four weddings and make a great demo even if they stink as a videographer.
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ajestic Video Creations
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2007, 12:12:32 AM »

Quote from: "Majestic Video Creations"
One might say that this should show up in a demo but we all know that a clever editor can take footage from three or four weddings and make a great demo even if they stink as a videographer.


Can I just be a pain in the butt and disagree with you here? Now, it's obvious that your worst footage isn't going to make it into a demo (that goes for all of us, good or bad) but I hear this all the time and I completely disagree. I make it a habit to view my competitors stuff as often as I can and I have to say that videographers who are mediocre are likewise not able to make a very good demo video. I don't want to point fingers at any of my competitors in particular so check out some demo videos of your competitors. They are not all very good. In fact, most of them are excruciating! If just any old videographer could make such a great demo out of a few good clips, why are there so many bad ones out there? If you think I'm way off, please let me know why. I don't want to have the wrong impression of my competition.


Just to prove my point, I selected a random video (from outside my market) as an example. This was the first video I came across, I didn't just select the worst one I could find:
http://www.vgrafx.com/streams/weddingrecap2.wmv

While there is some good footage in this video (no doubt the best footage they had), the editing and effects are bad. Actually, most of the footage wasn't very good either. The cheesy effects were not used in a tasteful manner, as if the editor didn't know when to use what transition or effect so they just rolled the dice. Quite frankly, I got sick of seeing footage of the bride and groom making out (of course maybe their friends and relatives want to see that). Every time the still photog used a flash, the auto iris went crazy. I could go on but the just of it is this videographer probably isn't much better than uncle Bob and his camcorder.

So, while you may not make a decision based on your demos (most clients do anyway), it's a great way to tell what kind of skill they have.
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url]http://www.coloradoweddingvideographer.com[/url]
Majestic Video Creations
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2007, 12:19:30 AM »

I think we may be stepping outside the purpose of this particular forum. So, I am starting a new one under "Wedding Video Editing Issues" called "Cameras, Editing, & Dim Light" as a continuation of this. Brides, feel free to take a peek if you want. See ya there.
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ajestic Video Creations
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2007, 10:33:05 AM »

Thanks! I think this thread is done.  Cheesy
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url]http://www.coloradoweddingvideographer.com[/url]
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