CS4 nightmare

[JonZeigler]

Hello to all; hay Hank.
Well I moved up to CS4 and it's been a nightmare every since.  Some parts of the program are intuitive and others aren't.
No let me start from the beginning.  I thought go from Element 7 to Premiere Pro would be a piece of cake.  Humm...
Seems there's a different app for everything.  Spend the last three weeks (haven't dedicate full time to videography yet) trying to
figure out how to use Multicam.  Knew how to sync using Premiere Element 7 (PE7).  I gave up on the whole process two day ago and
used techniques used in PE7.  I'm learning this software the had way.  Tutorial help, but when you have a  problem, it can't talk back to you.
I nested two weeks of work and I almost cried when I realized that was going to have to use old technique for multicam editing and I could
get to underline clips.  I have a bunch of small jobs lined up (Sweet 16, Baby showers, etc...), and I want to start working toward wedding by February.
Need all that help I can get.  Don't want to embarrass the industry.  All suggestions are welcomed.

[jwp]

There is a good tutorial at : http://www.graspr.com/videos/Doing-multi-camera-editing-in-Premiere-Pro-CS3. It is for CS3 but you can get a good idea how the process works.

[Cole]

Jon,
For what it's worth I also took the plunge upgrading from PE3 to the CS4 Master Collection. I also had the same issue with learning the new interface. I have yet to switch over to the multi cam feature. I sync up however many cameras I had going and pick the best shot and bring it to the top track. I may invest some time in the tutorial but I am "content" with doing it the old way. The multi cam feature may be more efficient when applied properly but I wouldn't say the old way is embarrassing. If you can you summarize your current workflow I will let you know if there is anything I do different that might help. And regardless whether you do it the old way or a new way, you get better (and quicker) every time. Speaking of quicker I should get back to cutting.

Cole

[JonZeigler]

Hay Cole,
Thanks for the reply.  Just got client feed back from my wife on the same job I spent so much time editing.  I don't think people know what goes into editing video.  I cleaned up three hours of video, and all she could say was that the DVD was too short.
Anyhow I process is as follows:
Capture video:  often times in the beginning we setting the stage for main event (interveiw with guest, etc...) as a result there are a lot  of straight cut and paste stuff.
Next I sync video: in the last video (sweet16) we stopped and started a lot seeking the best shots; consequently, I had a lot of syncing to do.  I used the clip markers that are available in CS4 (learned thru tutorial).  The only advantage I see with that is if you make a mistake and move something out of sequence, you can always back-track (if you haven't made to many changes) and re-sync timeline.  As far as locating sync points, it's just like the old way - which I ultimately surrendered to.  I simply expand tracks and look for matching audio - I've gotten better at this over time (just like you said). 
I never really go the multi-cam to work; therefore, I used keyframes as maker on one of the track as indicators where I want to which top video.  I was able to seperate video in project monitor after is resized.  I did this so I could see both tracks at the same time. This would allow me to choose the best shots.  The only problem with that is, if you use the technique that CS4 incorporate (it cut the video in sub-videos), you have to go over each sub-video and re-size them all.  Ooohhh is get better...  I find that the best way is to find a switch shot is: find a switch location, keyframe it, arrow over 1 frame, keyframe again, let the video play until I want to switch again then, arrow over 1 frame, keyframe again.  Then I lower opacity line - that places the focus on other track.  I use to do this to both tracks, but if find that this technique will give the same affect.  One line would be up and the other would be down - back and forth. 
I figured out that there was something wrong with my sequence audio the first time I imported into my multicam sequence.  PPCS4 is like any program in the world. GIGO. If you make any mistakes; ie, forget to highlight active track or something like that, it will turn your work into garbage.
After I've gotten everything the way I want it, I just chk all keyframe areas cause that where most mistake accure. Of course the wife has the final say.
Don't forget the chapter markers.  Encore can be very funny.  And just think,,, I have no idea what I doing.  Between starting my business and getting the news from my last client, I'm about to lose my mind. 
Maybe I should've become a DJ...

[Cole]

Well I must say that you have one of the key principles down already, "The wife has the final say"!

I have never had an issue with syncing my footage. I am doing a three cam shoot plus digital audio from a Zoom H2 and I get them all lined up in less than 5 minutes. There was an email today from EventDV promoting a sync plug in that would save hours in post production. I assume they mean over the span of my career. I use a standard sequence without multi cam and I don't think I want fix it if it isn't broken. At least not unless it becomes painfuly obvious that I am missing out. I have even tried using timecode with my Panisonic cameras (HVX and DVX) but it is still off by a few frames since you have to switch out of VCR mode where you set the timecode. I just skip it and use this method.

Generally I look for obvious cues in the footage. These can be a clap, a cough or even as someone begins to speak. Camera flashes are the best but won't help if you are syncing from an audio only source. I try to let the cameras roll without breaks for as long as logic permits. But once on the timeline a point is determined on the first clip and I drag the beginning of the clip to that spot to make it the first frame. I then find the same point on the next clip and if it a 2 camera shoot I drag the other clip to line up with it. If there are more cameras I repeat the first step until I am down to the last camera. Then I take all of the clips that were trimmed and stretch them backwards to their beginging. I then lower the scale down to 30 - 50 percent depending on the # of cameras so I can see most if not all of each frame. I will reserve the top track for my "Live" camera angle. I then proceed with picking the starting angle and cutting when I need to change. I drag the clip to the top, click reset in the Effects Controls to resize it and choose the next angle and repeat. Generally I use a Cross Dissolve but I have just left the cuts as is but it depends on the project.

One thing to do before you start cutting the clips is to unlink the audio. Otherwise you will hear a click each time you cross the break. There are times when the sync doesn't matter such as dancing highlights, titles or B- Roll. You just cut them in where you need them. It sounds like you are on the right track, just keeping working at it and don't be afraid to ask when you don't know. I plan to look more into the multicam function but I am jsut not in ahurry. If someone else would care to chime in on how they do multi cam shoots I would love to hear about it.

And you are absolutely correct that most people don't know how much goes into shooting or editing a video nor do they care. All you can do is make a product you are proud of and let the word spread. Just beware, if you turnout a bad product the word still spreads. Good luck.

Cole

[HankCastello]

Sorry I haven't noticed this topic - it's below the bottom of my screen.

Guys, multicamera editing in CS4 (and CS3) is AWESOME!

Here's the deal -

1. Don't start and stop your shots so often.  Try to coordinate this among your operators.  If one camera is going to shoot something on its own, cover the lens with your hand before stopping. (Or some other technique that will let your editor know not to look for matching clips from other cameras.)  Tape is cheap.  Time is not.

2. Break your project into coherent sequences.  Typically, I'll have sequences for: opening; ceremony; reception entrances; 1st dances; cake & toasts (sometimes separate); greetings; general dances 1; camera wends among guests; dances 2; etc.  You want your sequences to be manageable, not huge monsters.

3. Lay out your tracks so that your main audio feed will be on audio track 1. You'll use this track to listen to as you cut.  use camera flashes, eye blinks, music, etc. to synch by.

4. If you have gaps between clips from any one particular camera, you must fill them with black video, export as avi, then replace original segmented clips with the single clip that matches the length of the others.  When you're new at this, you may want to duplicate this sequence before cutting, so you have a reference to help match up audio later.

5. Set multicam to use audio from one camera only (track 1) - do not switch audio as you cut to another camera.   Cut your sequence.

6. Once you've cut your sequence, add audio from non-camera sources.

7. Rubberband your audio tracks as needed.

[JonZeigler]

Sorry I haven't noticed this topic - it's below the bottom of my screen.

Guys, multicamera editing in CS4 (and CS3) is AWESOME!

On that I agree---

1. Don't start and stop your shots so often.  Try to coordinate this among your operators.  If one camera is going to shoot something on its own, cover the lens with your hand before stopping. (Or some other technique that will let your editor know not to look for matching clips from other cameras.)  Tape is cheap.  Time is not.

That seems like a good idea.  I will give it a try

2. Break your project into coherent sequences.  Typically, I'll have sequences for: opening; ceremony; reception entrances; 1st dances; cake & toasts (sometimes separate); greetings; general dances 1; camera wends among guests; dances 2; etc.  You want your sequences to be manageable, not huge monsters.

I actually am doing that on my current project.  I think I get it now.  Sync isn't a problem when there are just a few clips, but when are more, you have to break them down(or gather) into sequences.  Just like multi cam sequencing.

3. Lay out your tracks so that your main audio feed will be on audio track 1. You'll use this track to listen to as you cut.  use camera flashes, eye blinks, music, etc. to synch by.

Not sure about this one.  Mulitple cam have multiple track.  Not unless you refering to insert/overlay while importing from multiple tracks. IE... when doing a party, I just I would use the audio from the DJ track insert mic stuff as I go.

4. If you have gaps between clips from any one particular camera, you must fill them with black video, export as avi, then replace original segmented clips with the single clip that matches the length of the others.  When you're new at this, you may want to duplicate this sequence before cutting, so you have a reference to help match up audio later.

Going to have to sleep on this one, and read again tomorrow.

5. Set multicam to use audio from one camera only (track 1) - do not switch audio as you cut to another camera.   Cut your sequence.

I haven't figured how to do it any other way.

6. Once you've cut your sequence, add audio from non-camera sources.

I just this answers my question about number 3

7. Rubberband your audio tracks as needed.

Have no idea what you mean, unless you mean looping

[HankCastello]

3. Lay out your tracks so that your main audio feed will be on audio track 1. You'll use this track to listen to as you cut.  use camera flashes, eye blinks, music, etc. to synch by.
Not sure about this one.  Mulitple cam have multiple track.  Not unless you refering to insert/overlay while importing from multiple tracks. IE... when doing a party, I just I would use the audio from the DJ track insert mic stuff as I go.

I'm talking about a temporary thing here.  Of course you will eventually bring in all your good audio, but let me give you an example -

For ceremonies, I may just use a shotgun mic audio track, since it pretty well picks up everything.  I won't use this track in the finished video, except maybe for a touch of ambient here and there like applause, etc.  But I will use it while doing multicamera editing because having the audio switch back and forth while you cut is no good.  You need one main source that pretty well has everything - even if it won't make the final cut, just to edit by for the multi-cam cutting.

[HankCastello]

4. If you have gaps between clips from any one particular camera, you must fill them with black video, export as avi, then replace original segmented clips with the single clip that matches the length of the others.  When you're new at this, you may want to duplicate this sequence before cutting, so you have a reference to help match up audio later.

[Going to have to sleep on this one, and read again tomorrow.]

Multi-cam doesn't work well (if at all) having multiple clips on a single track.  You have to "paste" them together.  I synch up all the clips, then use black video to fill the gaps, then export (one track at a time) the track(s) with multiple clips to create one single clip.

[HankCastello]

7. Rubberband your audio tracks as needed.

[Have no idea what you mean, unless you mean looping]

Raise and lower audio levels as needed.  For instance, while the minister is talking, I have the groom's mic set to be muted.  When the bride or groom speak, I bring up their level while dropping the minister's levels, as gradually as possible to avoid having the switch be noticed.  Often they will nearly talk over one another and you can't turn one track completely on or off, but just enough to avoid the echo'y sound of the further mic.  Doing otherwise would make abrupt audio changes that viewers may notice.